Month Broken

When a hexagram is strike by month, we can say that line has been month broken (月破).

If the month broken line is moving and it did not been kill by day, other moving line or got killed back, then we cannot consider this line is useless. After passing through this month, this line will not be broken month anymore and regain the power of killing or producing other line.

If the month broken line is moving and it has been kill by day or other moving line or got killed back, then this line is almost useless. If this line is an appointed star, it is a bad sign. Even passing through this month and will not be broken month anymore, but it will still been killed by other moving line or day.

If the month broken line is a quiet line, then this line has no power of killing or producing other quiet line.

Besides that, we also need to consider when a line has been month broken, is the element of the line kill the month element or the month element kill the line element. For example, line t is broken under month w, line w is also broken under month t. However, this two situation is different. For first situation, line t is water element and month w is fire element, water kill fire. Therefore, if this moving line t didn’t been killed by anything else, then it may be useful after passing through that month.

For second situation, it is on opposite direction, now is the month element killing the line element, the destruction is high. Even this moving line didn’t been killing by anything else, it already become almost useless.

westtown:

You seem to have some advanced experiece on the I Ching. Especially since you can read Chinese, and browse forums in Chinese that discuss this in further depth.

I agree with most of your statement/help to readers paragraph, that you have posted. However, I am a little curious about the last two parts of your statement.

"Besides that, we also need to consider when a line has been month broken, is the element of the line kill the month element or the month element kill the line element. For example, line t is broken under month w, line w is also broken under month t. However, this two situation is different. For first situation, line t is water element and month w is fire element, water kill fire. Therefore, if this moving line t didn’t been killed by anything else, then it may be useful after passing through that month."

"For second situation, it is on opposite direction, now is the month element killing the line element, the destruction is high. Even this moving line didn’t been killing by anything else, it already become almost useless."

I am under the belief that both of these situations, the lines will be under the same amount of trouble, and not one in a worse situation than the other, as you have showed.

Under the strike rules, x clashes with y (enter element branch that clashes in x and y). We both agree there. However, you differentiate between one being more destructive on the other. Here I am dubious.

Although I understand where this logic comes from (destructive/control cycle, water controls fire, etc), under circumstances such as the one you've described, the most important factor I believe is the fact they are striking/clashing directly. Rather than which one under elemental rules controls the other. In Ba Zi/Four Pillars, if the month is fire, a single water (just assume it's just them two as in your example), is under control of the fire, despite the water usually controlling the fire. This I believe is the Reverse control rules. (Sorry, really crap at translating Chinese to English, bare with me ) Which I believe holds true here too.

What does your experience and what you've read think on this? Or is what you posted what you believe?

Please, note, this is a discussion on the matter (somewhat academically), and not an attack on you.

Looking forward to more posts from you.

UK Anon Hotmail User

UK Anon Hotmail User,

Yes, I know. It is a free discussion board, so we are free to voice out any doubt.

The last two part of the statement is I copy from some other article. In most of the old book, they didn't meantion about month broken has this two different situation. However, this author has meantion about this differences.

Month broken is because the month strike the line, which based on the strike rule. As far as I know, they are some IChing reader suggest that strike rule is actually based on the rule of killing and producing. Element at one side has kill the element opposite it, forming a strike. Because of this rule, they believe that c strike with wa and cn strike with sh are not as destructive as other type of strike, because same element striking same element. However, most of the IChing reader still follow the traditional rule, which as long as it is a month broken, there are all the same.

Westtown

Hmmm, interesting. I will post here what I have read and see what you think.

Each branch contains one or more stems. eg, t has the yin water stem. c has yin earth, metal and water., etc.

Now, the strike that we know, is partly from the elements. But not from the branches innate element. eg, c may have yin earth, but it is generally considered earth only. What of the other two stems inside it?

From some authors on Ba Zi, they mention that the strikes inside each Branch is infact from the strikes/clashes in the stems inside each branch. And it is these that stem strikes, that determine the strikes, not the element they represent.

Eg. c has yin earth, yin metal and yin water.
wa has yin earth, yin wood and yin fire.

The stem strike is slightly based on elemental control, but not entirely. ie.

Yang Wood strikes Yang Metal.
Yin Wood strikes Yin Metal.
Yang Fire strikes Yang Water.
Yin Fire strikes Yin Water.
Earth does not strike with anything.

If it does follow the elemental control (which is does slightly), it should instead have the following;

Yang Wood strikes Yang Earth
Yin Wood strikes Yin Earth
Yang Earth strikes yang Water
etc...

Because earth does not strike anything, then it can not be fully elemental control. It simply means that the two extremes (Wood vs Metal, Fire vs Water), are at conflict with each other. So they strike.

Since they strike each other on the basis that they are at conflict with each other, then even if one element naturally controls the other one, it can not have a greater affect than normal if the other way around.

Anyway, that's how the author more or less explained it. There are some other bits and pieces (such as e and h not 100% striking, but it does work, etc) that I have not included, but will if you'd like to hear those too.

Let me know what you think of this authors take on the strike thing.

UK Anon Hotmail User

In Ba Zi, they do need to consider the stems insides each branch. Like you have said, "c" has yin earth, metal and water, but the earth element has a lot more power than metal and water element in "c". So with the "wa". Therefore, strike relationship insides the branch may not be very strong even though it does exists.

Besides that, in this IChing interpretation, we usually don't consider the element insides each branch.

No, no. I think you misunderstood me a little there.

I meant, if the origin of how they strike is from the stems inside the branches, even if we do not consider them in the branches during a I Ching interpretation, then one striking branch still can not be more dangerous, or more powerful against one side of the strike duality. So they should still be equal in how much damage they inflict on each other. (Since that is where they strike originate from)

As to the earth branches, c, ch, wa, sh, since the earth stems do not strike, then (as you said) the branches shouldn't strike, or have less of an affect. However if this is so, many people who do have earth branches striking shouldn't be so worried, yet they still are feared for the strike doing the same amount of trouble. Which is why I wanted another person's oppinion on this matter.

On a slightly seperate note. From your perspective, what are the stems used for in the hexagrams? I have some theories on the use of them, but nothing concrete. So I have avoided using them until I knew for sure. Do you have any ideas?

UK Anon Hotmail User

If you asking my opinion on whether they will be different if month element is killing the hexagram element or opposite way, my opinion is they are the same. On the strike relationship between c, wa, cn and sh, I also consider they are same destructive as other type of strike. However, I always look for any possibility they having different like the author said.

Currently, I didn't consider the stems insides the branch when interprete hexagram. If you have idea on the use of stems, you can -*test*-('") it on hexagram that you already know the result. See how accurate is the theory, so that you can improve the theory.

Westtown

Uh, I am actually talking about using the stems with the branches, rather than the stems that are inside the branches.

eg.

I being Yang Wood, all the way to X being Yin Water.

But everything else we seem to be agreeing on. From what we've read and learnt.

UK Anon Hotmail User

Until now, I haven't saw any IChing reader interprete hexagram using the stems, may be most of the people also don't know the use of stems, which including me.

There may be some purpose for this stems, otherwise it wouldn't be arrange together with the branch. Currently, I haven't saw any IChing master really research on the potential use of this stems. May be you can start the first step to do that.

Westtown

Hi Westtown,

A healthy exchange of info. Why don't you help Anon and I in providing free reading in this board. You are welcome to do so. We only have a few members here for now, but in due time, the readership will surely grow. So please, offer your help if you can find the time.

Thanks,

Horse.

Hi Horse,

Thanks for you offer but I cannot accept it, because I am quite busy all the time, so I may not be able to show out all the time.

Thanks.

Sincerely,
Westtown

Hi Westtown,

It's ok. Thanks for being honest. But in case you change your mind, you are free to give readings.

Take care of yourself.

Horse.

Come and help me out when you have your free time